tv FOX News Sunday With Chris Wallace FOX August 17, 2014 10:00am-11:01am PDT
i'm shannon breen in for chris waums. a state of eemergency is decl e declares and a curfew declared in ferguson, missouri after police protests over the unarmed teenager continue. we're going to achieve justice. we must first have and maintain peace. >> we're all talking about the same concerns and the same passion. the frustration in your home is in my home. >> we'll have a live report and analysis from ferguson. >> then texas governor rick perry hits the campaign trail in iowa. ramping up speculation about another presidential run. we'll talk with governor perry
about 2016, his battle with president obama over immigration, and that new indictment. it's a fox news sunday exclusive. plus, iraq's prime minister steps down as the u.s. retaliates against violent isis attacks. >> we will continue air strikes to protect our people and facilities in iraq. perhaps most importantly, we're urging iraqis to come together. >> what does the formation of a new government mean for isis in iraq. we'll discuss with two members of congress. ron johnson and eliot engel. and hillary clibten sparks a political firestorm after criticizing president obama's foreign policy. our sunday panel weighs in on clinton's efforts to distance herself from the president. all right now on "fox news sunday." hello again from fox news in washington. texas governor rick perry has made a number of headlines in recent weeks. first it was his centerstage
clash with president obama over the crisis in the border, then his campaign stops uniowa, and then late this week, news broke that the governor had been indicted on felony charges on alleged abuse of power. joining us now, governor rick perry. you have been indicted on two felony accounts, abuse of power. with the intent to harm another, you harmed another, or influenced rosemary linbrg, a public servant. the head of the texas party said governor rick perry has fought dishonor to his honor, his family, and his office. how do you respond? >> it's important for people to understand the details of this. and the d.a., the highest ranking prosecutor in travis county, who also has oversight
for state officials. this individual was stopped driving while drunk. she had almost three times the legal limit of alcohol, .238 is what i believe it was. when you look at the video, not only of the stop, if you look at the video of ms. linberg when she was boog booked into the county jail, the abusiveness. she was kicking on the door. she was abusing the law officials. she had to be restrained. when you look at that and you have to make a decision on whether or not $7.5 million of texas taxpayer money is going to go to the unied that she over e oversees, i very clearly, i very publicly said as long as that sidge is going to be running that agency, i had lost confidence in her. the public had lost confidence in her, and i did what every governor has done for decades,
which is make a decision on whether or not it was in the proper use of state money to go to that agency, and i vetoed it. that's what the rule of law is really about, shannon. and i stood up for the rule of law in the state of texas, and if i had to do it again, i would make exactly the same decision. >> well, a special prosecutor in this case says he thinks you should take this seriously. he's looked at the law, at the facts, interviewed more than 40 people. you know these charges on conviction could result in more than 100 years in prison. he's convinced a grand jury it is a different game with a jury, but is there any small part of you that's worried at all that that will happen. >> i certainly take everything i do seriously. the rule of law in particularly i take seriously, but let me just share with you, david axelrod said this was a very sketchy indictment. professor dur awits, who is not
exactly my cheerleader said it was outrageous. so i think across the board, you're seeing people weigh in and reflecting that this is way outside of the norm. this is not the way that we settle differences. political differences, in this country. you don't do it with indictments. we settle our political differences at the ballot box. and i think across the board, when you have david axelrod and harvard law professor dirsh wits saying what they said, it's reflective of what we're looking at. i want to say thanks to people like rick scott and jeb bush and bobby jindal and ted cruz who have very publicly stated that they, too, think this is way outside the realm of any type of thoughtful look at the laws in the state of texas. >> you mentioned the david axelrod tweet. he said the indictment seems to him, quote, pretty sketchy. you do have support from an
unlikely source. something you and mr. axelrod probably don't agree on is the issue of immigration. you have been very vocal about what's going on in texas and have called the administration to task. they say the number coming across the border illegally has dropped significantly. to what do you attribute that? do you give the administration any credit for the numbers going down? >> hoorz what i know is happening. almost six weeks ago, we surged into that area of operation with our texas ranger reconteams, our parks and wildlife. we brought real attention to the issue. we're sending messages back to central america that you should not send your children hereby. they're not going to be able to walk across the border. we talk eed powerfully about surging the national guard into that area as well. so i would suggest to you that the issue here really goes back to that rule of law, if you
will. we're not securing the border as the constitution calls for us to. when you add the irs scandal that's going on and the outside of the rule of law bear, and then you look at what's happened in austin, texas, with this grand jury, i think there is some extraordinary concern in this country about the rule of law not being followed and too many things are being decided in arenas that shouldn't be decided from the standpoint of a government that's out of control. people want to get back to the rule of law and knowing with certainty that our border is going to be secure, that the irs is not going to come loknocking down door looking for things and the nsa is not listening in on our phone conversations. >> the nsa has said the president is considering executive action. he said he's left with no choice. here's what he said before
lawmakers on capitol hill left for their august recess. >> if in fact house republicans are concerned about me acting independently of congress, despite the fact that i have taken fewer executive actions than my republican predecessor or my democratic predecessor before that or the republican predecessor before that, then the easiest way to solve it is pass some legislation. get things done. >> and the administration's publicly called on you to get behind that. i think a letter back in july than valerie jarrett sent specifically and pub lackly asking you to influence lawmakers to get something done on capitol hill. is that the solution, and does the president have no choice left but to act, as he said? >> here's what i think is very important for the president to understand, and for washington to understand as well. you're not going to have comprehensive immigration reform until the border is secure.
the american people do not trust this president, and they do not trust washington to do these two things at the same time. they expect the border to be safe. when a border patrol agent was killed in will asea county this last week by an individual who had been deported multiple times, the people of the state of texas, and i will suggest to you, all across the country, are fed up with that. they want this border to be secured. they want to be able to live in their communities and feel like they're safe. and if this president does not do what required to secure the border first, i will suggest to you whatever he does is going to be a failure. >> well, to that end, the first wave of national guard troops you called up are now positioned there. estimates it's going to cost anywhere from $12 million to $18 million a month to have them there. one of your frequent critics, democratic congressman joaquin castro said there's no defined mission for the troops.
essentially, it appears to be a feel-good show of force without purpose. there's question whether you would grant them the ability to apprehend, to arrest. and what is your answer to kr t critics who say you're using the border to fuel your 2016 mission? >> anyone who wants to make this about politics needs to go talk to mrs. vega, mrs. marie vega, whose son, the agent, former marine, great american patriopa who was killed, shot down in cold blood by an individual who had been deported multiple times, i hope mr. castro or anyone else being critical of this thinks that's critical. it's not. the citizenoffs this country and the citizens of texas expect to be able to live in safety in their communities. that's what the rule of law is truly all about. washington has failed at that. this president has failed. he has had almost six years to
address this issue. he refuses to. that is what must be addressed, and i'm going to do it, and texas is going to do it. we're going to secure the border of this country and do everything in our power to make sure our citizens are safe. >> all right, governor, let's talk beyond texas. how about we talk about iowa? because by our saekt, you have been there four times since the last election. you were there last week where conservative leader bob vander bl plot said this. it's the best i have heard perry. i think he's raised his game substantially. what can you tell us about running in 2016? >> i hope i can be very helpful between now and the 4th of november so joni ernst will go to the united states senate representing iowa. terry bran stead is going to be a fabulous job, but there are other races we worked with. their state senate is just a couple seats away of having control, republican control, so they have both the house, the senate, the lieutenant governor,
and they can then become an incredibly influential state from the standpoint of economic development. from now to november 4th is what i'm focused on. 2016 will take care of itself. >> november 5th, if you want to come talk to us about 2016, please do. thank you for joining us. tensions remain high in ferguson, missouri as the police shooting of an unarmed 18-year-old sparked outrage across the country. we'll have a live report and analysis next.
missouri governor jane nixon declared a state of emergency in ferguson yesterday and put a curfew in place for citizens there, midnight to 5:00 a.m. clashes between police and protesters have plagued the city sing the august 9th shooting of michael brown by a police officer. we're discuss the fatcts of the case in a moment, but mike tobben is live in ferguson on a rainy morning. good morning, mike. >> caller: good morning, shannon. we did not make it through the first night of the curfew without clashes. you can't call a widespread total of arrests seven total, but most of it is located at the heart of the demonstration. captain ron johnson made a point
of clarifying the heavier tactics used were not directly related to the forcurfew. one person was shot and taken to the hospital in critical condition. also, a police cruser was fired pawn. beyond that, police had information people had broken into a restaurant and moved on the roof. they moved in with smoke canisters and one tear gas canister. captain johnson explained. >> the operation tonight, because of our initial response, is to -- was in red's barbecue in the shooting, were operational responses and the response was not related to the enforcement of the curfew. >> callecal >> reporter: as much as captain johnson entered this process a hero embraced by the community, and he embraced it, we're seeing a community growing impatient with him, in part because he didn't use enough force to stop
the looting on the other hand for using too much force and repeating the scenes of the near nightly clashes with police. at a press conference yesterday, he was heckled by people who want punishment for officer darren wilson and aren't taking the time to understand the process. it can really be summed up by one heckler who shouted out over the crowd, let me get this straight. you have the authority to suppress the people, but you don't have the authority to arrest a killer cop? shannon. >> mike, thank you very much. joining us now with his analysis of the michael brown case, former homicide detective and fox news contributor, rod wheeler. he's also there in ferguson. thank you so much for your time today. i want to satart out by playinga little of what governor nixon had to say about the situation and trying to restore order in ferguson. >> if we're going to achieve justice, we must first have and maintain peace.
this is a test. the eyes of the world are watching. >> all right, you've been there for a couple days now, seen it firsthand through the day and night. how would you grade this test? how are things going in ferguson? >> well, i think things are a lot better tonight or today, shannon, than they have been the past two nights. i was here friday night and i was right in the midstering right in the heart of all the rioting, and it was really total chaos that night. there was no police out here. right around 1:30 a.m., that's when police eventually moved in. last night, again, the same thing. i was right in the middle of the curfew, and there was a lot of rioting then. the good news, though, shannon, is yesterday, during the day, there was a lot of demonstrations, a lot of protests, and they were all peaceful. as a matter of fact, reverend jesse jackson was here, i was walking with him, and he was preaching nonviolence, and no one was violate yesterday. now, the challenge for the police department, the governor, and everyone else is going to be what's going to happen tonight?
and i can tell you that the police are strategically trying to gather intelligence so they can be prepared for whatever happens. the community, though, most people in this community want peace, shannon. >> well, let me ask you this because you have a great deal of experience in dealing with these kinds of cases and situations. the police chief there in ferguson, thomas jackson, has taken a lot of heat for releasing a video that seems to show the victim in this case, michael brown, involved with a robbery prior to him then later being shots and killed. we understand that federal authorities, department of justice, did gnaw want that video released. it was done by local authorities on friday. how do you think that's impacted the situation? >> well, that has impacted the situation tremendously. let me tell you why real quickly. you know, there's a serious disconnect, shannon, between the state police and the city police here in ferguson. they don't even communicate with each other, and a lot of it has to do with the release of that video. in my opinion as a homicide investigator, i don't see the
significance of releasing that video right now because according to the police chief, it has nothing to do with the arrest or the shooting of michael brown. if that's the case, then why release it? and that's what the people in this community are saying. i think they're going to have to go back, shannon, take a look at how this was handled and hopefully not make those serious mistakes again. >> quickly, how tough is it for police in this situation? you mentioned trying to protect local businesses and citizens. they want to peacefully protest against those who are there to do real harm, and the police risk looking like they have too heavy a hand. >> right, and they have been somewhat heavy handed. i think right now they have things under control. again, it's going to have to be working with the community. they're going to have to bridge that gap. because right now, it's a serious gap, a fracture between the community and the police department. they're gg to have to clearly work on that going forward if they're going to bow effective in this community. >> rod, thank you so much for your time today. >> sure, shannon.
>> we extended an invitation to governor nixon to join the show. he is doing four other shows today, but he declined the request? what are your opinions? up next, isis continues to terrorize iraq, and ukraine targets a convoy of russian military vehicles. two top members of congress join us to discuss the u.s. role in escalating situations all across the globe, next. copd? it can feel like this. copd includes chronic bronchitis and emphysema. spiriva is a once-daily inhaled... ...copd maintenance treatment... ...that helps open my airways for a full 24 hours. you know, spiriva helps me breathe easier. spiriva handihaler tiotropium bromide inhalation powder does not replace rescue inhalers for sudden symptoms. tell your doctor if you have kidney problems, glaucoma, trouble urinating, or an enlarged prostate. these may worsen with spiriva.
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u.s. air strikes in iraq are ongoing. the current operation said to be a joint kurdish iraqi and u.s. campaign. we'll talk with two members of congress in just a moment, but first, fox news senior foreign affairs correspondent greg palkot from the city of erbil with the latest on the operation. greg? >> reporter: shannon, fox news has learned the u.s. jet fighters and unmanned drones continue to hit isis positions around that dam today. and what is clearly the opening up of a new front in the war against militants. kurdish fighters are on the move, advancing with iraqi forces on isis militants in an attempt to retake the strategic mosul dam held by isis, there are fears they could let it burst or blow it up with devastating effect. in coordinated action, the u.s. launched nine air strikes saturday against isis positions at the dam. a local commander told us the
terrorists can be beaten. >> absolutely. >> absolutely? >> absolutely. >> that's the note. this, as the humanitarian crisis builds. 400,000 refugees fleeing into one iraqi province alone. 1.5 million are across the region. relief workers are coping to catch up. >> they need food, they need shelter, they need medical support, like medical supplies. and then they need help because they're traumatized. >> ethnic minorities are still reeling from details of friday's massacre in a village near mt. sinjar. some 80 men and teenagers will killed by militants, some at close range. you can not even say they're animals. even in the jungle, animals have laws. they don't abide by any laws. they are really monsters. he called them monsters. there are, in fact, new reports of isis militants killing men
and kidnapping women. u.s. officials tell us that they are investigating those reports. back to you, shannon. >> greg, thank you very much. now let's bring in two key members of congress. senator ron johnson, a member of the foreign relations committee, and congressman eliot engel, the top democrat on the foreign affairs committee. welcome to you both. >> thank you, good to be here. >> morning, shannon. >> i want to start with a question for both of you and i'll address it to you, senator scrawnson. you heard about the tension we have in iraq. at what point do you feel the administration has to come to congress for any type of authorization? >> it's a good sign president obama is beginning to act. a couple weeks ago, president obama did invite about eight or nine members of the foreign relations and armed services committee into the white house to speak with his council about a new authorization for the use of military force, which i think is pretty long overdue.
they're finding out trying to act militarily with the current authorization in place is becoming tenuous. it's a good sign president obama is recognizing the fact he's going to need authority to deal with this new asymmetric threat. we just heard from greg palkot. isis member of diplomacy is beheading, crucifixions, mass executions and live burials and enslavement of women and forced marriages. i'm glad president obama is finally beginning to act. >> congressman engle, same question to you? >> i think congress has to play a role in this. this is the way our constitution works and i think congress is really tired of presidents just going in by themselves, so i think there has to be consultation and an aisn't from congress, but i do agree with the senator ersenator. i think what is going on in iraq is horrific and it warrants a
response. we cannot just put our heads in the sand and pretend it doesn't exist. if we let isis get bigger and bigger, they'll plault attacks on us. >> here's what ben rosen said when i asked him what the long term strategy is regarding isis. >> provide assistan ancance and kwement to those iraqi forces who are taking the fight to isil so we can squeeze them in the space they're operating in and ultimately address that threat that they're posing not just to iraq but to the region and to the united states. >> senator johnson, you heard him there specifically mention a threat to the u.s. what do you think needs to be our long term strategy? >> we need to defeat them. we had deputy assistant secretary to the state in front of our committee on the 24. he said isis is far more capable of manpower, resources, and fighting effectiveness than what we faced in 2007. they're funneling 30 to 50 suicide bombers into iraq every month.
he said they could easily funnel those suicide bombers into western nations. we need to be highly concerned about this. this threat is a gathering storm. it's not going away. like congressman engel said, we can't bury our heads in the sand in this one. we may be war wareary, but isis/isil is not war weary. they're highly organized. they have been very patient setting up this caliphate, and they're going to use that base of operation against the west. >> congressman, we have seen them break through the lebanon border. there has been great operation, we know, in syria. there are very big concerns about aleppo. what is your concern about that immediate situation in syria with regard to isis? >> well, the syrian opposition, the free syria army, whom we should have armed two years ago, is facing defeat, and they have called on us to bomb isis outside of aleppo. i think we should consider doing
it because this is one war. it's building from syria into iraq. the border is obliterated. there's no border anymore, and we need to fight isis wherever they rear their ugly heads. you know, when we, years ago, when the russians were thrown out of afghanistan, and we just sort of looked the other way and didn't really focus, al qaeda, the taliban, allowed al qaeda to plot against the united states and that culminated in september 11th, 2001. if we allow isis to get stronger, if they take aleppo, it's the end of the free syria army and also would mean that isis would have essentially a no man's land in syria through iraq to plot and plan attacks on our homeland. and frankly, our european allies should step up to the fight. they are geographically much closer to iraq and syria than we are and i don't hear many good things frankly coming from our nato allies or the european union. they need to step up also.
we're all in this fight together. >> and what i'm hearing from both of you is that you do feel there is a significant threat to the u.s. long term if isis isn't stamped out. now, they do seem very motivated. they don't seem that they're slowing down in any espect. can another of you envision a point where we are, despite as war weary as this country is, that we are putting boots on the ground or getting more heavily involved there so we don't have to confront them here? >> i don't think we're going to put boots on the ground like we did before in iraq. i don't think anyone wants to do that. we do have some boots on the ground now, and frankly, we have todo everything we can to repel isis. i don't think we have the luxury of putting our heads in the sand and saying it's over there and we're not going to do it. i think what we're doing now is effective and we have to do more of it and ultimately ll lly wee boolts on the ground.
we have choices and the worse choice is to do nothing. >> the president campaigned and was elected obhis part to get us out of that part of the world. a lot of lives were invested, a lot of treasure inveshed so what is your take on where we go from here? >> unfortunately, president obama buzzed out of iraq, and that was strategic and historic blunder and we're seeing the results of this. right now, what the president has to do is assemble a coalition of the willing. we have to realize there was a german and an australian suicide bomber the week of july 24th. thas what brett reported to us. we have seen the first american suicide bomber set himself off in syria in may. so this is a growing threat to america. and we really do need to, like congressman engel said, we have to assemble nato, strengthen nato not only to handle what is happening in syria and iraq. >> i want to pivot to ukraine and russia.
conversations about russian convoy s across the border. ukrainians saying they have taken out some of those vehicles. reports that a jet was shot down. i want to look at a new poll out this week. 74% of those surveyed said president obama has not been tough enough on russia. 77% say they putin does not take president obama seriously. congressman, are the sanctions working there? is our strategy with respect to russia with the advances of president putin, is it working? >> well, i think that the nato alliance is being tested by putin. you know, for the past 15 or 20 years, the equation for nato was always that russia was kind of a partner, that we sort of didn't need to look at russia as an adversary. that's clearly not the case. putin has indicated he's an adversary of the u.s., and therefore, the whole equation of nato has to change or else nato is dead. what it really means is the
claus in the nato agreement, that every country has to spent 2 per 2% of their gdp has to be enforced. i think putin is a bully. inyou don't stand up to a bully early on, you have to stand up to them later on. i don't like comparisons to hitler, but in 1938, some of the people said, well, just give hitler czechoslovakia. he's worried about protecting ethnic germans, if we do that, everything will be all right. and then we saw what happened. now we're saying just give him crimea. he's protecting ethnic russians. you can't allow this bully to do that. the way we deal with putin now is going to set the stage for the next 25 years because he's going to be around for a long time. if we thinks we're paper tigers, he's going to continue to move with impunity. >> have we missed the opportunity to deal more forcefully with him? where do we go? >> let's hope we haven't missed
the opportunity. i haep hearing administration officials saying they want to offer an off ramp to vladimir putin. he's not looking for off ramps. he's looking for on ramps. we should have complied with the request for small arms ammunition immediately. we should be very avertly, very vocally, very visibly saying we're going to honor the memorandum, we're going to help insure the territorial integrity and the governing unless, and as congressman engle said, that's the way you have to treat a bully. we have to beef up nato. defense or foreign minister succorsky in bollapoland said t polish-american alliance is useless and it could be counterproductive because it creates a false sense of security. that's the wrong way for our allies to think of america, but because of the weakness we have
shown, that's the way our allies are viewing us. we have to show far greater strength of resolve, and we need to secure ukraine and defeat the russian agreggression into ukra. >> thank you both for joining us. >> thank you, shannon. >> have a great day. >> you, too. upthex, what does maliki's retirement mean for u.s. engagement in iraq? our sunday panel weighs in, next. she loves to shop online with her debit card. and so does bill, an identity thief who stole mary's identity, took over her bank accounts, and stole her hard earned money. unfortunately, millions of americans just like you learn all it may take is a little misplaced information to wreak havoc on your life. this is identity theft, and no one helps stop it better than lifelock. if mary had lifelock's bank account alerts, she could have been notified in time to help stop the damage. lifelock has the most comprehensive identify theft protection available,
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the situation on the mountain has greatly improved and americans should be very proud of our efforts, because the skill and professionalism of our military and the generosity of our people, we invoke the isis siege of mt. sin jar and we helped save many innocent lives. >> president obama praising the u.s. military operation in iraq before making clear that our involvement there is not over yet. it's time now for our sunday
group. syndicating columnist george will. usa today columnist kirsten powers. liz cheney and amy walter from the cook political report. good sunday morning to all of you. the president in that moment, in those remarks from martha's vineyard sounded like a teeny bit of a victory. we have accomplished our mission, but it is clear -- >> it's not over. but to be able to say we have done something. i said we're going to have very strict parameters around it. it was successful, and now we can move on. it continues with a sort of whack-a-mole crisstrategy from administration which is do not get much more engaged, trying to keep the u.s. out of anything that is more direct than that. >> you heard the congressman and senator we had just before this. both saying that we have to do something decisive with respect to isil and isis. nobody wants to think about getting too involved, but it may
require that if we don't want them to show up here. >> absolutely, shannon. isis has to be fought, they have to be defeated. they can't be contained. even this limited objective the president celt out for himself, we now know that you had yazidi slaughters after he declared it had been a success. the longer the president waits to take true offensive strategic action, the harder that fight is going to be ultimately, the bloodier the fight is going to be, the costlier. the fight is coming. and secondly, the more likely it is that we're going to experience, unfortunately, potentially a mass casualty terrorist attack on the home rnd. it's clear isis is telling people in the intelligence community briefed reporters and said isis knows a war with the united states is inevitable, so it's coming. and for the president to be saying things like, i want a solution in iraq that has no victor and no vanquished, which is what he said last week, you know, i think frankly you're to
the point ynow where this is a dereliction of duty on his part. he's unwilling to take defensive action to defeat isis and is watching this threat, which is a grave threat potentially of historic proportions grow by the day. >> kirsten, how does he sell that, though, to the american people who he has been the one saying the u.s. is too involved in too many places and we need to come home? >> he has to sell them on the facts. i don't think there's a lot of disagreement over the threat that isis poses to the united states and poses to the people of iraq. and if he's going to come out and say i care about humanitarian issues and i have to come in to save people from a humanitarian crisis, there's lot more work to be done because he's incorrect when he says that he has somehow dealt with the humanitarian crisis. there are hundreds of,000 of refugees internally displaced people, refugees in their own country, right now who don't have food or water or shelter and are under threat by isis. so i think he would have to sell that, and look, i think americans have shown that they're pretty supportive of
these air strikes. even 65% of democrats in the fox news poll supported the air strikes. i don't think it's correct to think americans won't support something. t they don't want a full-scale ground war but they support what he's doing so far. >> can we isolate isis? >> from the air? i doubt it. yugoslavia was born in 1918 and died a new years ago of internal contradictions. there is nothing compared to those in iraq. iraq was born in 1920. eight years ago, the senator from delaware, joe biden, suggests partitioning iraq along sectarian grounds. well, it's doing itself now, the question for liz and kirsten and everyone, who's going to take back the cities of fallujah, tikrit, and mosul? the iraqi army? what is the iraqi army fighting for? the iraqi state? the iraqi state barely exists now. a leader of the kurdish fighters said there's an asymmetry in the motivation. the isil people want to go and
have lunch with mohammed. our people want to fight and go have dinner with their families. those are the kurd whose have built a nation and know what they're fighting for. what would the iraqi army be fighting for? and absent that, who will take the cities back? >> george, you're right that it's a complete disaster and a sectarian mess, but i think the security of the nation requires that we focus on what is the direct threat to us. and part of the problem in the president's policy to date is he has been saying, well, we have to wait until we have a political solution before i'll take action. we've now had a political solution. maliki is gone, but what we lunched with the surge, for example, is the military action, demonstrating to people we will be there, we will be fighting with them, is critical. at the end of the day, you know, granting everything you just said about the conditions on the ground, isis is a direct, immediate, grave, strategic threat to the security of the united states of america, and the president as commander in chief has an obligation to
respond to that. >> also, i don't thinki army. itsther kurds and their point that they're not as diabolical as isis, but they have said they want to fight them. refugees are being able to flee, they want to protect them, and they're armed, and they have been asking for this for years, in the last few months have been aggressively asking for help. >> it's one thing to defend kurdistan, it's another thing to take back cities with urban warfare. >> i want to make sure we touch on the situation in ukraine and russia as that continued to heat up. there are new polls, as we mentioned, how the president, our president, is doing on russia. 74% say not toughness. when we asked does putin take obama seriously, 77% said no, he doesn't take him seriously. where does that leave us? >> another interesting thing is
when asked how americans think the president is doing on the issue of ukraine, 20% didn't have an poib at all, which goes to the heart of the issue. there are a lot of americans. they see putin, they think cold war. it brings up a lot of those memories, but they don't exactly know what's happening in the ukraine. judging him purely on is he standed up to putin or not, that's pretty easy. saying, well, what should we be doing, what should we be doing in ukraine? that's tougher for the american public. it's an overall sense, so much of what's happening in terms of the frustration americans are having is also based on what is happening at home. there's a very deep frusheration that politicians have been spending a whole lot of time talking about what is going on overseas, a lot of talk about how we can help overseas, not enough talk about how we can help regular people. when people at home feel like domestic issues haven't been involv
solved, they get more war weary. >> even as we have domestic issues raging and they may not understand the nuances of all that. it is still happening, and we do have to give it some attention, so george, where do we go from here? >> we go to the specific questions. it's one thing to say he should be vonger. it's another thing to say what should we do about it? let's be blunt. 20% of americans say have no opinion on ukraines. not nearly 20% of americans could finds ukraine on a map, let alone crimea which once upon a time was part of ukraine and is now conceded as departed. these polls are very limited information. >> well, we will continue our discussion, but not on international affairs. we're going to take a break here. we come back, we'll talk about hillary clinton. shoo sparked controversy when she criticized president obama's foreign alacy. plus, what would you like to ask the panel? go to facebook or twitter a
advice. more importantly, he appreciates her friendship. >> hillary clinton and eric schultz downplaying a rift between president obama and his former secretary of state after clinton publicly criticized the president's foreign policy. we're back now with the panel. kirsten, i'll start with you. i caught your eye. it was so awkward, the position that hillary was kind of caught in the moment with that question. trying to say everything is fine. >> well, they apparently were tn a party for vernon jordan's wife and dancing on the dance floor and having a blast together, so allegedly, nothing is wrong between them, but pretty clearly, as much as she has said she reached out to the president to make sure he knew she didn't mean anything by it, she was differentiating herself. this was not a subtle statement. it was a pretty harsh statement for her to make about his foreign policy, and yes, she has already -- you knee she wanted to arm the syrian rebels, but the way she really, i think,
attacked the president over his foreign policy philosophy is a much bigger attack than just dish agreeing on maybe one particular country. >> just so people know, a little bit of what she had to say in the interview as far as the u.s. moving faster to arm syrian rebels fighting asad, she said the failure left a vac yum which the jihadists have filled. and she said don't do stupid stuff is not an organizing principal. we had indication that her staff had reached out to white house staffers. clearly, she knew there was going to be some tension over these remarks. >> i agree with kirsten. i don't think this was just a u mistake. it's clear she has been setting all along on this book tour, the guide posts or planting the f g flags for 2016 so when we come back and have these interviews and say is she just positioning
herself now that it's 2016, she can say, oh, no, i told you in 2013, 2014, on the book tour, in this interview, this is where i stood. trying to get it laid out now, and then when we go into 20 sane, we have the markers set. >> we have an interesting comment from facebook. why did she turn around and apologize to obama for doing so after she had made these remarks? if she is trying to differentiate herself, was it more explicit than she thought it was going to be? >> i think it's a washington game, the appaology piece. she has two problems. one is substantive and the other is political. the substantive one is we're watching the complete and total collapse of the obama foreign policy. you have the secretary of defense basically saying the world is a disaster right now. so secretary clinton is in a position where she's got to try to differentiate herself from that, but essentially that means
differentiating herself from herself because she oversaw this policy for four years. that's very difficult, not to mention benghazi which she has yet to answer for. the political problem is she's attempting here to move right. it is going to anger those on the left. she's going to lose what support she has from though on the left of her own party, and she's not certainly going to gain support from those on the right, from those in my party, from people who have said we have seen this before. we know, for example, from bob gaelts' book, that she has a history of taking political positions and overruling national security issues because of her own political gain. it's a tough, complicated situation for her and i think it's probably beyond her capacity to maneuver. >> we got this from twitter. bob says why does hillary behave like a whistle blower who had no involvement in the events taking place in her tenure as secretary of state? george, does it ring true to you? >> that's surely the question.
she's defifferentiating herself certainly, defining herself. how much ballast of belief does she have? she looks clever in what she's doing, but it's never clever in politics to look clever. in bob gates' memoir, he talked about how dismayed when she said to president obama she had opposed president bush's surge in iraq for political reasons having to do with the competition with obama in the democratic primaries. you have the urld with, what, 18 months after she leaves secretary of state, exploding. that's the words of the president's own secretary of defense, and she can't really say everything was fine and then it suddenly exploded. >> well, and let's also be clear. i know we're focusing on foreign policy, but i think her bigger problem going into 2016, this is not so much about the primary but the general election, is distancing herself if the economy is not doing as well than distancing herself from
what's happening overseas. the bigger issue in 2016, as it is with every presidential election is how do people feel about the economy? that's going to be a tougher balancing act. voters are going to attach every democrat to what's happening with this president. and finding a way to differentiate herself to say another four years of a democrat in the white house is going to be a better economy because why? and having an answer for that question. >> we had a poll that may sound a little light hearted but there's some truth, probably a nugget in here. the fox news poll about who you would rather spend your summer vacation with. hillary and bill, 42%. michelle and barack obama, 25%. but hillary and bill, way out in front on the summer vacation choices there. is she aware -- the two of them at this point, maybe, it seems are more likable than the current president, but when
you're in office, you're the one making all the toughivations. >> part of the answer to that is based on sort of like, which is going to be more of a circus. >> yeah, and you know, i think you know if you're hanging with the clintons, it's going to be a circus. and i think, you know, this goes to bill clinton as well, also, we were talking about this before, the extent to which people look add him, look at how he's behaved, how he continues to behave, and not that that should blame hillary for that, but more, do you really want that person living in your white house again? >> nobody would have predicted this in 1999, but a poll recently out, bill clinton, related to other world leaders, he and the pope tied. the pope, tied in terms of likability -- in terms of their approval rating. so nobody would have predicted that in the height of impeachment scandal. >> who things he's a plus or minus for her? >> who, bill?
>> yeah. definitely a plus. i wish they would have done would you rather be with hillary or obama. if you take bill out, it would change it equation. >> george, what do you think? >> he's a plus until you consider him rounding the house. >> that's it for the panel and that's it for today. chris wallace will be back next week, and you have a great week, and of course, we'll see you next "fox news sunday" from right here in washington.
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